007 - Thunderball (1965) DVD - CUT? FAO Ewan

[Ewan_McMahon]

I am not certain about the following - my source is only from a very old youtube video I just recently discovered, so not exactly reliable information I know. But the source suggests there is a scene in "007 - Thunderball (1965)" that might be edited on DVD (unknown what DVD or country, sorry for lack of sufficent information - possibly this edit might be present on the oldest / original DVD releases only). This scene occurs roughly in the middle of the film, and is as follows:

As Bond and Felix fly over the ocean in a helicopter, bond is looking down at the ocean through Binoculars and there is Manta-Ray swimming in the ocean. Felix says: "Manta-Ray, unusual to see them as far out as this".

It might be either Felixs dialogue is missing, or the whole scene is cut. The whole scene lasts about 17 seconds.

[James-Masaki_Ryan]

source?

[Ewan_McMahon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X80fCIWK7jk

It happens at about 0:58 to 1:18 into the video (there is an on screen message saying the scene is missing on DVD's) and then the Manta-Ray scene plays as an example. Unfortunatly that is all it shows - it doesn't say what DVD's are affected.

As I said, it is a very old youtube video (and the fact it is a youtube video itself does not really prove the contents). Although the thing to me that sort of helps validate the contents of this video, is that also the video specifically talks about a few comparisons of the different soundtrack versions of Thunderball. The other noted audio differences about Thunderball in the video seem legit, so would seem a little odd if whoever made this video got the bit about the Manta-Ray scene missing wrong.

HOWEVER I have just recently double checked IMDB(details) page and it says the following:

According to the Special Edition DVD version of "Thunderball", there are a few versions of the film out there. In different versions, Bond says a different line when he escapes from Largo's shark pool. Some versions also feature a comment that Felix makes when he and Bond see a manta-ray from the helicopter. It's not in the DVD. There are also alternate takes of a scene with Largo on his boat in different versions. Many of the versions released on VHS did not feature the original score for the underwater battle at the climax. [In fact ALL the above differences - plus the use of the instrumental Thunderball theme during the closing credits - appear in the 1992 MGM/UA UK VHS release. This suggests that rather than several different versions, there are 2 alternative cuts].

Not sure how I missed the note on there when I originall checked. But anyway, it seems to back up that the manta-ray line is missing on the Special Edition DVD? I've searched around other websites such as MELONFARMERS etc, but no where else offically confirms this. I have not enquired on BLURAY.COM(forums) yet about this though - maybe someone there has an old copy who can confirm.

[James-Masaki_Ryan]

I went and checked the US Ultimate Edition (which the current entry had so many things wrong in the listing I had to update it all from scratch... and next have to do the other releases.

Anyway, the line wasn't there in that sequence. With that YouTube clip, it makes no mention of where that scene was taken from. VHS? LD? Or is it even fake? Because the supposed voice of Felix Leiter that says the line does not sound anything like Rik Van Nutter's voice.

There isn't enough evidence here, so no updates for this one... except the overhaul I'm doing and possibly for other outdated Bond DVD pages on our site...

[Ewan_McMahon]

I went and checked the US Ultimate Edition (which the current entry had so many things wrong in the listing I had to update it all from scratch... and next have to do the other releases.

Anyway, the line wasn't there in that sequence. With that YouTube clip, it makes no mention of where that scene was taken from. VHS? LD? Or is it even fake? Because the supposed voice of Felix Leiter that says the line does not sound anything like Rik Van Nutter's voice.

There isn't enough evidence here, so no updates for this one... except the overhaul I'm doing and possibly for other outdated Bond DVD pages on our site...

Well like I said, it was an odd source - a very old unconfirmed youtube vid with a few clips and notes on it, so not really reliable - I don't put too much faith it in myself.

Just a couple of other things I thought I'd mention - I am about 99% certain that the "Manta-Ray" line mentioned in that youtube video is included on my old VHS copy released in 2003 I think. Of course VHS information isn't much help for this site, but various websites seem to confirm that there are or at least were x2 soundtrack variations to this film at some point in the past.

IMDB (I mentioned already):
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0059800/al ... t_ql_trv_5

YOUTUBE (various differences - I mentioned already):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X80fCIWK7jk

BLURAY.com(forums):
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.ph ... 1&page=130

YOUTUBE (different ending themes used on some different releases I think):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVwRDtEEEes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PLe1COhPiA

Also there is the following page that talks a bit about various differences in many of the Bond film soundtracks:
http://www.007magazine.co.uk/bond50_review.htm

And I think there are other websites which mention the x2 soundtracks or the differences between the two (but I don't have them available right now). Am wondering, if the "Manta-Ray" line is not included on one soundtrack, then perhaps it is on the other soundtrack (assuming that other soundtrack was used on another copy release somewhere). But I have no idea what soundtrack (or maybe both) may be used on any so-and-so + release from any so-and-so country. Am sure you'll agree all the information from all these sources seems kind of sketchy at best. Nevertheless I just thought I'd mention this stuff about the possibility of x2 soundtracks.

Maybe a note about these soundtrack changes for this film could be added to the listings page(s)? Also the other bond films with heavy soundtrack sound differences, like "You Only Live Twice", "On Her Majestys Secret Service", "Diamonds Are Forever".

Just a thought, up to you guys.

[James-Masaki_Ryan]

Sound differences, like remixing mono to 5.1 with added surround effects, or actual changes like music and voice cues etc?

Are you able to check the VHS?

[Ewan_McMahon]

Sound differences, like remixing mono to 5.1 with added surround effects, or actual changes like music and voice cues etc?

Are you able to check the VHS?

Sorry i don't have access to the old VHS anymore. I used to watch all Bond movies on old VHS's years ago over and over so i remember most scenes and sounds in them (remember more so the "sounds" - i get so used to certain sound-effects in movies, if they are suddenly different i instantly notice something is wrong). And then in recent years when they were repeated on SKY TV, i definitely noticed sound differences with a few sound effects in at least one of the films: like in "Diamonds Are Forever" the space-diamond-lazer-weapon firing sounded different to the VHS (and various other sounds in that film, and other early Bond films I think). And these were definitely actual new sound-effects, not just remixed the original existing monos into surround. Am sorting of assuming the same is true with Thunderball based off all the websites information i've provided.

I don't think i can be of anymore help though - a few odd memories of mine and these websites with some information on them roughly saying similar things is kind of all i have to offer at this point. Sorry about that.

Perhaps now i've mentioned these possible sound differences mentioned on these other websites, someone else will see these posts here and knows more?

[James-Masaki_Ryan]

This happens a lot with remixes to 5.1, and especially prevalent in the early days of DVD remasters. Unfortunately we can’t put notes in our database for every time it happens and to say what is right or wrong, but we do use “it includes the original mono”, like in our Thunderball entry, the US is the winner since it has the DTS remix and the original mono.

There are some examples of films getting their soundtracks remastered from original elements, but they are just as distracting as remixes with new elements.

“Anatomy of a Murder” has a 5.1 mix using the original master tapes of the Duke Ellington band’s performance and wow, it sounds like the whole band is in your living room. But when put alongside a mono dialogue track, it sounds completely off... at least it is optional. The mono track is still the default.