Enter The Dragon (various)

[Chris_Xa]

Unsure where to post this one, as it covers a few categories. Feel free to move it elsewhere, if you deem it out of place here.

1) http://caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergleiche/m ... ultiID=250 has a few visual comparisons with audio specs, if someone wants to add the link to http://www.dvdcompare.net/comparisons/f ... ?fid=10949 .

2) Some more reviews at http://www.dvd-basen.dk/uk/home.php3?se ... k&region=z if someone wants to check them.

3) The important stuff (and reason for this post): Can someone check with HamishT please, and confirm if his release ( Enter the Dragon, Blu-ray ALL Australia - Warner Home Video , http://www.dvdcompare.net/comparisons/f ... id=10949#5 ) has the errors I'm reporting here please?

3A) The disk's audio options are incorrect - even as advised on the back case cover. The disk has 5 soundtracks: "English Dolby Digital 5.1 640kbps", and mono mixes in French, German, Italian, Spanish. The cover incorrectly advertises "English 5.1, Spanish 2.0 Surround, French Mono".

3B) Subtitles on disk are in English, French, German, German HoH, Italian, Italian HoH, Spanish, Dutch, Danish, Finnish, Norwegian, Swedish. Back cover only advertises "English, Spanish, French".

3C) More importantly, "Bruce Lee: A Warrior’s Journey (99:56)" cannot be found on the disk. Again it is also advertised on the back cover, but nowhere to be seen on this disk's extras. It is the only missing extra from the list here.

3D) Re video transfer, someone might wish to add the note that it's a 1080i transfer converted to 1080p - can't explain the jaggies any other way - as seen on the caps-a-holic.com German bluray zoomed in pictures. This Oz release suffers identical visual issues (may even be the same VC1 transfer).

3E) The Original 1973 Featurette is titled "Location: Hong Kong With Enter The Dragon" (during the extra's screening), and on the back case cover.

3F) The "Audio Commentary with producer Paul M. Heller and screenwriter Michael Allin" is advertised/listed on the disk's extras as "Commentary with producer Paul M. Heller" (no mention of screenwriter Michael Allin); case cover does not even list it at all. However, Michael Allin is definitely in the commentary (comes in at 3:48).

3G) Guess it's uncut (102:33).

4) If HamishT stands by his submission, we're probably looking at another Warner bluray ALL Australian release (the 3rd being the 40th Anniversary, which this is not). This has 2007 written on the rear cover (albeit as "packaging design"; no other info on cover or disk to advise when it was made, and I don't have a bluray drive to check the file dates). It is NOT the 40th anniversary version, and nothing on the packaging suggests it is.

[Jim_Mcdonaugh]

Never liked Bruce Lee movies. So boring and just plain stupid. I'm suprised some people still watch them...

[Samuel_Scott]

Not saying I'm getting involved in this one as my time is light the next few weeks, but I PM'ed baggish to see if he can have a look.

[Chris_Xa]

Never liked Bruce Lee movies. So boring and just plain stupid. I'm suprised some people still watch them...

For me, they've been usually bettered by those who followed. But don't forget, he was the first to bring such films to the West - which is why he's so venerated: his martial arts were so convincing and realistic, unlike ANYTHING seen before in the West. Don't think I've EVER seen a film that came out in the West with "realistic" martial arts before Bruce: everything was just knuckle fights/boxing and uncoordinated kicks. HIS films changed all that. I think today, Jet Li is considered the master in such, along with Jackie Chan (for a different reason) and some others. But before Bruce, there was "nothing".

Having said all that though... this is probably (for me) his best film. Always think of this film as "Mortal Kombat" in the real world; who knows, it might have even inspired the games.

As for his martial technique... I'm no expert, but many believe it's still valid and has relevance, even today.

And finally, re "boring" fights... have to disagree with you there. Just look at the scene where he's in the pit, and then "attacked" by all the henchmen. No "one-at-a-time" like most films... he's fighting 2+ people at the same time! It's THOSE things that people still watch his films for.

Again, my personal opinion.

[Jim_Mcdonaugh]

For me, they've been usually bettered by those who followed. But don't forget, he was the first to bring such films to the West - which is why he's so venerated: his martial arts were so convincing and realistic, unlike ANYTHING seen before in the West. Don't think I've EVER seen a film that came out in the West with "realistic" martial arts before Bruce: everything was just knuckle fights/boxing and uncoordinated kicks. HIS films changed all that. I think today, Jet Li is considered the master in such, along with Jackie Chan (for a different reason) and some others. But before Bruce, there was "nothing".

Well, I agree with you here. He indeed brought something to the table.

Having said all that though... this is probably (for me) his best film. Always think of this film as "Mortal Kombat" in the real world; who knows, it might have even inspired the games.

MK is great. Guilty pleasure, heh.

As for his martial technique... I'm no expert, but many believe it's still valid and has relevance, even today.

Well, when you've got just two fists and both legs, but you opponent has an assault rifle or an automatic shotgun with 20 rounds clip, and he is a dead shot... your chances aren't good at all. Hope you've got a body bag for yourself.

Just always think about my brother who was an aikido trainer, martial arts expert in his own right. Got beaten to death by some ex-special forces mercenary. Took some time to ID his remains...

And finally, re "boring" fights... have to disagree with you there. Just look at the scene where he's in the pit, and then "attacked" by all the henchmen. No "one-at-a-time" like most films... he's fighting 2+ people at the same time! It's THOSE things that people still watch his films for.

I wasn't talking about this very movie. This one is Ok as I recall. I really hate that one he fights Chuck Norris.

[Chris_Xa]

Well, when you've got just two fists and both legs, but you opponent has an assault rifle or an automatic shotgun with 20 rounds clip, and he is a dead shot... your chances aren't good at all. Hope you've got a body bag for yourself.

Well I think an American (gun maker perhaps? Smith, or Wesson, or Colt?) summed it best when he said "God created man, Sam Colt made them equal." Don't advocate violence, but guns have become an equaliser of sorts.
Unfortunately in the hands of the general population, it's created more problems than not. Always compare countries with guns being widely available to the population (regardless of legality) vs those without: USA vs Europe (similar population metrics), some African and Latin American countries compared to (Canada, for example)... - in terms of "death by...". Anyway, it's a personal view.

Just always think about my brother who was an aikido trainer, martial arts expert in his own right. Got beaten to death by some ex-special forces mercenary. Took some time to ID his remains...

My condolences for your family's loss. Though I would have placed my $ on your brother (forgive any perceived lightness in the statement, it's unintended). Always wondered who'd win in a real fight between Ali vs Bruce: Raw fast power vs targeted strikes. Eg Star Trek's Spock can immobilise anyone, but if he can't get close enough to touch those spots around your head, it's a pointless ability.

I wasn't talking about this very movie. This one is Ok as I recall. I really hate that one he fights Chuck Norris.

I only remember Chuck being in one of those films, and nothing about how good or bad the fight was. The fact I didn't remember it until you mentioned it, and that ENTER THE DRAGON is his only film I can watch again, probably lends credence to your view. Though judging from a documentary I've seen (from Bruce Lee: A Warrior’s Journey I think), http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_of_Death would probably have been his best film; unfortunately he left us before it was completed.

[Jim_Mcdonaugh]

Well I think an American (gun maker perhaps? Smith, or Wesson, or Colt?) summed it best when he said "God created man, Sam Colt made them equal." Don't advocate violence, but guns have become an equaliser of sorts.
Unfortunately in the hands of the general population, it's created more problems than not. Always compare countries with guns being widely available to the population (regardless of legality) vs those without: USA vs Europe (similar population metrics), some African and Latin American countries compared to (Canada, for example)... - in terms of "death by...". Anyway, it's a personal view.

Agree, if you have no experience handling a firearm - don't even touch it. You'll likely gonna blow your brains out, or kill you favorite pet.
In Carlito's Way, Al Pacino's character was very clear about that if you recall.

Always wondered who'd win in a real fight between Ali vs Bruce: Raw fast power vs targeted strikes. Eg Star Trek's Spock can immobilise anyone, but if he can't get close enough to touch those spots around your head, it's a pointless ability.

A gym teacher, no matter how good is he, fighting against a highly skilled and experienced soldier who killed 4 dozen of living humans, it's always a bad move.

I recall I tryed to fight a guy once. I was like 8 and he was like 25... He took my money, my nice cap and my recent gift watch. And I was nearly dead, beaten to a pulp.

[Hamish_Towgood]

Unsure where to post this one, as it covers a few categories. Feel free to move it elsewhere, if you deem it out of place here.

1) http://caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergleiche/m ... ultiID=250 has a few visual comparisons with audio specs, if someone wants to add the link to http://www.dvdcompare.net/comparisons/f ... ?fid=10949 .

2) Some more reviews at http://www.dvd-basen.dk/uk/home.php3?se ... k&region=z if someone wants to check them.

3) The important stuff (and reason for this post): Can someone check with HamishT please, and confirm if his release ( Enter the Dragon, Blu-ray ALL Australia - Warner Home Video , http://www.dvdcompare.net/comparisons/f ... id=10949#5 ) has the errors I'm reporting here please?

3A) The disk's audio options are incorrect - even as advised on the back case cover. The disk has 5 soundtracks: "English Dolby Digital 5.1 640kbps", and mono mixes in French, German, Italian, Spanish. The cover incorrectly advertises "English 5.1, Spanish 2.0 Surround, French Mono".

3B) Subtitles on disk are in English, French, German, German HoH, Italian, Italian HoH, Spanish, Dutch, Danish, Finnish, Norwegian, Swedish. Back cover only advertises "English, Spanish, French".

3C) More importantly, "Bruce Lee: A Warrior’s Journey (99:56)" cannot be found on the disk. Again it is also advertised on the back cover, but nowhere to be seen on this disk's extras. It is the only missing extra from the list here.

3D) Re video transfer, someone might wish to add the note that it's a 1080i transfer converted to 1080p - can't explain the jaggies any other way - as seen on the caps-a-holic.com German bluray zoomed in pictures. This Oz release suffers identical visual issues (may even be the same VC1 transfer).

3E) The Original 1973 Featurette is titled "Location: Hong Kong With Enter The Dragon" (during the extra's screening), and on the back case cover.

3F) The "Audio Commentary with producer Paul M. Heller and screenwriter Michael Allin" is advertised/listed on the disk's extras as "Commentary with producer Paul M. Heller" (no mention of screenwriter Michael Allin); case cover does not even list it at all. However, Michael Allin is definitely in the commentary (comes in at 3:48).

3G) Guess it's uncut (102:33).

4) If HamishT stands by his submission, we're probably looking at another Warner bluray ALL Australian release (the 3rd being the 40th Anniversary, which this is not). This has 2007 written on the rear cover (albeit as "packaging design"; no other info on cover or disk to advise when it was made, and I don't have a bluray drive to check the file dates). It is NOT the 40th anniversary version, and nothing on the packaging suggests it is.

Just got the PM, will double check the disc after work this evening, but I did use BDInfo to scan the disc, so everything should be correct. It was one of the first discs I scanned when I started submitting films to www.blu-ray.com too.

[Jim_Mcdonaugh]

www.blu-ray.com

It sucks, I hate that place. Too much inaccurate info, not many titles have been added and all those ads "Buy NOW on Amazon.com!".
And they offer only North American discs which I usually pass anyway.

[Samuel_Scott]

Their reviews are very accurate, but the database is user built, and with that comes certain inaccuracies. No different than here really - you can't stop every inaccuracy.

[Chris_Xa]

...will double check the disc after work this evening, but I did use BDInfo to scan the disc, so everything should be correct.

Am eagerly awaiting your investigation. And if your copy has the same cover as the one in my hands ( http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Enter-the ... -ray/8793/ minus the big red 16 sitcker over the MA15 rating logo obviously - the back cover looks identical)... where is the VERY important "Bruce Lee: A Warrior’s Journey" extra? Step by step instructions would be nice, for it appears nowhere on the extras menu.

Unless it's a rerelease, as I suspect.

Their reviews [blu-ray.com] are very accurate, but the database is user built, and with that comes certain inaccuracies. No different than here really - you can't stop every inaccuracy.

That's true with everything really. As for bluray.com reviews... must admit I find them a bit on the optimistic side. Just look what they wrote the first time on the video of the first ENTER THE DRAGON bluray release. Wondered if we were looking at the same thing. Personally I find High-Def DVD Digest more "honest". And Rewind's too.

But I do like the other bluray.com features: user reviews, specs (when Rewind's are unavailable), screenshots (eg they let me compare the US image of SNOW FLOWER with the Oz bluray, and found the oz was cropped), user reviews, different bluray releases, zones, etc. Despite my not-great-agreement with their reviews, it's the site I check most often after Rewind, Basen, caps-a-holic, Beaver, HiDef, and probably DVDTalk - when looking for info on a release.

[Hamish_Towgood]

...will double check the disc after work this evening, but I did use BDInfo to scan the disc, so everything should be correct.

Am eagerly awaiting your investigation. And if your copy has the same cover as the one in my hands ( http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Enter-the ... -ray/8793/ minus the big red 16 sitcker over the MA15 rating logo obviously - the back cover looks identical)... where is the VERY important "Bruce Lee: A Warrior’s Journey" extra? Step by step instructions would be nice, for it appears nowhere on the extras menu.

Unless it's a rerelease, as I suspect.

Yep exact same one, that's even my cover scan

Unfortunately my disc is rooted. it just keeps starting and stopping as if its scratched, and I can't get to the menu (Warner Bros Blu-Rays go straight into the film).

Give me some time, and I will ask on the Aussie Blu-Ray forum, we kiwis/aussies are extremely helpful in that area... but I don't see why my provided specs would be wrong.

http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php ... ost8639293

PS - at no point did I say that this disc is the '40th Anniversary Edition' when I originally submitted the specs.

[Chris_Xa]

Unfortunately my disc is rooted. it just keeps starting and stopping as if its scratched, and I can't get to the menu (Warner Bros Blu-Rays go straight into the film).

Actually, mine never goes to a menu either. Like you state, it starts the film immediately. If I press the menu button, THEN I get the menu (whilst the film is playing).

Give me some time, and I will ask on the Aussie Blu-Ray forum, we kiwis/aussies are extremely helpful in that area... but I don't see why my provided specs would be wrong. http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php ... ost8639293

Good luck to us all. Thanks for checking. Btw if you can get your disk playing, did you get the audio/subtitle options you mentioned - or the ones I see? You should be able to access either with the relevant remote buttons (audio & subtitle), if you can't get to the menu still.

PS - at no point did I say that this disc is the '40th Anniversary Edition' when I originally submitted the specs.

No no - never insinuated you had. Just making the general observation that IF my disk is different to yours, then it would make a total of 3 Oz bluray releases: yours, mine, and the 40th anni.

[Hamish_Towgood]

Nah nothing loads at all mate, I press the Top Menu button, but because the film is skipping, it just keeps freezing.

[Hamish_Towgood]

Well Blu-Ray.com forum member Technique says A Warriors Journey is not on his disc..

I'm confused. I am positive it's on my one.. wish the bloody thing would load.

I'm not giving up though.. I'll see if i can get my disc fixed, and then I can say for sure my specs were not correct There might have been a re-release and I have the original release.

* Update. Based on the small scan I can do with my damaged disc, it has to be different from his one, as mine does only show three subtitle track and three audio tracks, plus three 90 min + tracks (one is the film).

* Update 2 - United States also got a re-release which ditched the Warriors Journey docco. Australia must have got the re-release, but never changed their cover details from the initial release, which is why Warriors Journey still shows on the back, even though it isn't there anymore.

[Jim_Mcdonaugh]

Well Blu-Ray.com forum member Technique says A Warriors Journey is not on his disc..

I'm confused. I am positive it's on my one.. wish the bloody thing would load.

I'm not giving up though.. I'll see if i can get my disc fixed, and then I can say for sure my specs were not correct There might have been a re-release and I have the original release.

* Update. Based on the small scan I can do with my damaged disc, it has to be different from his one, as mine does only show three subtitle track and three audio tracks, plus three 90 min + tracks (one is the film).

Just rip your disc with DVDFab 9 and watch every .m2ts file so you don't miss anything.
I do it all the time coz my discs have poor mastering which prevents you from accessing certain content. Just try it yourself.

[Hamish_Towgood]

I've been trying to, but DVDFab can't get through the scanning process. Neither can AnyDVDHD.

[Samuel_Scott]

I remember reading the same thing had happened with UK releases, with the first including the documentary, and a second not including it. It seems that this is a separate release Chris, so feel free to post it in the YC forum.

[Chris_Xa]

I remember reading the same thing had happened with UK releases, with the first including the documentary, and a second not including it. It seems that this is a separate release Chris, so feel free to post it in the YC forum.

So it's not an Oz-disk only problem, but happens to all world-releases...? Wonder how one (who wants to buy the 1st version with the WARRIOR'S JOURNEY) can judge which version is which... The case cover truly is identical to http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Enter-the ... -ray/8793/ (which I assume is the 1ST release?) - even down to the barcode! There's no dates, no anything different...

Then a thought occured... WHY would anyone want THESE first 2 releases, given how bad the video is? One should pick up the 40th Anniversary for the video quality, and perhaps keep/get the DVD(s) for the great documentary (for those who care for such things, as http://www.dvdcompare.net/comparisons/f ... id=10949#3 indicates it's not in that version either).

Guess I can submit it, but how should I tag it - "unidentified rerelease" (given there's no way to distinguish it from the first release, until you play it)?

[Hamish_Towgood]

I remember reading the same thing had happened with UK releases, with the first including the documentary, and a second not including it. It seems that this is a separate release Chris, so feel free to post it in the YC forum.

So it's not an Oz-disk only problem, but happens to all world-releases...? Wonder how one (who wants to buy the 1st version with the WARRIOR'S JOURNEY) can judge which version is which... The case cover truly is identical to http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Enter-the ... -ray/8793/ (which I assume is the 1ST release?) - even down to the barcode! There's no dates, no anything different...

Then a thought occured... WHY would anyone want THESE first 2 releases, given how bad the video is? One should pick up the 40th Anniversary for the video quality, and perhaps keep/get the DVD(s) for the great documentary (for those who care for such things, as http://www.dvdcompare.net/comparisons/f ... id=10949#3 indicates it's not in that version either).

Guess I can submit it, but how should I tag it - "unidentified rerelease" (given there's no way to distinguish it from the first release, until you play it)?

Disc Number for original release:

Outer Ring: BVDL-004890A1
Inner Ring: BDVL-004890B1

Re-Release starts with A01

Looking at sourcing a new cover scan to see if the back is any different.